Real IDE with Debugger

(Updates to FBSL Editors, RAD and Related Stuff)

Real IDE with Debugger

Unread postby StiX » Wed Aug 30, 2006 1:01 am

I was astonished while writing first test scripts inside the weirdie-called "Eclecta" Editor. It was very nice to see how the editor automatically changed the typed lines, like True => TRUE, removed unnecessary spaces around parenthesis, automatic indentation, etc.etc.

However there are many inconveniences I've faced with. First of all, no multilevel Undo/Redo, no Intellisense, no context-sensitive help, Ctrl+F doesn't copies selected text to the "Find What" EditBox, no way to see a list of existing Functions/Labels, these commands most simple editors have, there's no way to see Variable Values and many many many more.

But, the most missing things are Debugging facilities and Form Editor. Because it's not considered as an IDE, it's really just an Editor for .fbs scripts, which have Syntax Highlighter, convenient Code Correction, a Syntax Checker, and it's actually a Script(!) which is actually written in FBSL, so it can be modified, it is even more astonishing. Nice work Lobanovsky! Приятно видеть фамилию знаменитого тренера в лице программиста! :)

Then I've founded that there are other "IDE's" made in FBSL, but then discovered that they are all obsolete, and only the "Eclecta" is the more recent and usable one. That limits debugging possibilities.


However, without Undo/Redo it's hard to write in it Scripts, so that should be the 1st thing that should be added. Hopefully that will be possible to add.

I wish I would have enough knowledge in C++, probably Debugging features (like observing Variable Types and Contents) cannot be added with FBSL. Or maybe I currently not realize the power behind FBSL?


And, there's another problem with the FBSL Language's CHM Help file Search abilities. It doesn't search in the "FBSL Language" tree, which is the most important in the whole CHM. Currently the only way to search in help is to use WiKi or only by Keywords in the Index Tab of the CHM.


I observed Eclecta's code, it's only 6000 lines! I think it's relatively small, knowing Editor's current abilities. It written in a nice style, it's code is tabulated, I like tabs instead of spaces. The whole script is also a very good "learning source". Great Job!
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Unread postby LeviFiction » Wed Aug 30, 2006 6:15 am

I'm sure Mike will post on his own soon enough. But I like to put my two cents where they don't belong.

It's true that there some things missing. It is excellent. And Mike left it open to extra development. If we want more, then we can make it ourselves.

And Mike is now working on a RAD environment to add onto this code editor.

But technically an IDE doesn't require a form editor. Form editors are known as RAD (Rapid Application Development) environments. Because they greatly speed up the process of making programs. IDE (Integagrated Development Environment) which technically it is. I mean C++ would still be C++ without a dialogue editor.

But that's my feelings on that.
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Unread postby Mike Lobanovsky » Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:48 pm

Hi Steven,

Eclecta.fbs was the first try to write, from scratch, a highly specialized time-critical FBSL script to explore FBSL limits, if any. FBSL grew together with Eclecta, and vice versa.

Eclecta.fbs is not perfect but it's practical as a multitabbed EDITOR (not an IDE or RAD) which I kept stressing from the very beginning. I believe it's instructive enough to promote further development based on what has already been done.

I personally am not supporting it any more except those cases when a significant bug is found or when FBSL realities change which make Eclecta.fbs inoperative.

As LeviFiction pointed out, I'm going in for a more complicated project to develop a more or less full-sized VB-like IDE written entirely in FBSL and featuring a visual designer. The IDE will be called 'FBSL Script Factory' (FSF). You can find a few FSF screenshots on the forum.

I was working on Eclecta.fbs all by myself, and I intend to work on FSF all by myself also. Thanks to the FBSL community, I've been able to produce and debug Eclecta.fbs in 10 weeks or so. FSF will take much longer and will not be open-source (only the executable and its dependencies will be made public).

Thank you for your interest in Eclecta.fbs. If you feel strong enough to face the challenge, you may try and evolve it into something more versatile/flexible/useful. I'll be eager to see the results.

Покойный Валерий Васильевич был (и остается в моей памяти) моим дядей.

Hi LeviFiction,

Thanks for sparing your time and effort to participate in the discussion.

Yours,

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Unread postby StiX » Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:52 am

Thanks Levi for clearing up the IDE/RAD issue.
Mike, it's a pity, that the new IDE/RAD will not be Open Sourced. It would be a good resource to learn developing apps with Docked Palettes with FBSL. It's definitely will be, like they say, a two big thumbs up!

Unfortunately I almost always have a lot of Video Editing tasks, and Scripting Languages are used in my environment only to automate tasks, not for inventing something new (I mean, there are already editors like EditPlus or UltraEdit). Also, after 3 years of development in WinBatch I have come up with a bunch of useful scripts, which may be useful to other Video Editors. FBSL executes up to 50x faster than WinBatch, a bit slower than VB, but the abilities of FBSL make me stronger. Currently I working on porting WBT scripts to FBSL. And an IDE would make the process much faster and easier. Then, a RAD is not necessary, as currently I even don't need any Forms, mostly interaction with scripts done through Win32 PopuMenus.

Mike, is the new IDE already usable in *any* form?
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Unread postby Gerome » Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:21 pm

Hello,

Here's a newest capture of the in progress very excellent Mike's RAD (100% coded in FBSL of course) :
Image

Any comments ?
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Unread postby LeviFiction » Sat Oct 21, 2006 4:47 am

Yes I have a comment.

I am once again forced to realize that I know nothing about computers. I'm depressed.

Hehe, but that won't stop me from drooling over the new RAD that Mike is so willing to make. It's so pretty.
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Unread postby Mike Lobanovsky » Sat Oct 21, 2006 3:26 pm

I'll keep my fingers crossed for M$ not to sue me for infringing upon their copyrighted user interface designs... ;)
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Unread postby LeviFiction » Sat Oct 21, 2006 7:39 pm

They shouldn't be able to. It's one thing to model after, it's another thing to steal.

In this case you used a different language, and built it from the ground up yourself. They won't care enough to sue, and if they did they'd lose.

Awesome work Mike.
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Unread postby Mike Lobanovsky » Sat Oct 21, 2006 11:22 pm

Thanks for the appreciation, Levi. Hopefully I won't let you all down.
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Ide with RAD

Unread postby jl2000 » Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:23 pm

Where can I download the ide with de Rad to try?

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Re: Ide with RAD

Unread postby Gerome » Sun Oct 22, 2006 10:17 pm

Hello,

jl2000 wrote:Where can I download the ide with de Rad to try?

Thank you


Sorry, the RAD is in progress and it can not not yet published publicly.
For the moment the RAD is able to :
- Edit .fbs and .inc files
- Syntax colour them
- Presenting an Fbsl project into an MDI interface.
Yours,

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:: Full SETUP w. HELP 05th of December 2011 ::
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Re: Ide with RAD

Unread postby Gerome » Tue Dec 19, 2006 12:56 am

Dear FBSL fanatics,

As you can see, FBSL is in constant evolution, and FBSL internal projects are also in a good progress...

Our dear friend Mike LOBANOVSKY has made an excellent step by realizing a GUI Form designer that will be finally integrated to FSF...

Now, let's have a look to his excellent work...
Image

Thanks Mike for this very sweet FBSL tool !
Yours,

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:: Full SETUP w. HELP 05th of December 2011 ::
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http://www.fbsl.net/setup/FBSLv3bin.zip [minimal upgrade to v3.4.10]
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Re: Ide with RAD

Unread postby Kohr » Thu Dec 21, 2006 6:27 pm

Gerome wrote:Sorry, the RAD is in progress and it can not not yet published publicly.


Is this still unavailable?

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Re: Ide with RAD

Unread postby Gerome » Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:17 pm

Hello,
Kohr wrote:
Gerome wrote:Sorry, the RAD is in progress and it can not not yet published publicly.


Is this still unavailable?

Kohr


Yes, but be patient, we're onto the good path.
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:: Full SETUP w. HELP 05th of December 2011 ::
http://www.fbsl.net/setup/FBSLv3.exe [full v3.4.10 installation pack]
http://www.fbsl.net/setup/FBSLv3bin.zip [minimal upgrade to v3.4.10]
Laissons les jolies femmes aux hommes sans imagination. / Let us leave pretty women to men without imagination.(M.Proust)
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Unread postby Kohr » Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:46 pm

Ok thanks. It looks like learning this will be easier with it.

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